sixPack
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« Reply #25 on: 20 October 2005 » |
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Mai mult de atat: moartea este iminenta, venirea Domnului nu! Pentru ca mai mult de 30% din populatia globului nu au auzit de Hristos! Asta in cazul in care Matei 24:14 nu s-a implinit in aceea generatie.
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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sixPack
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« Reply #26 on: 28 October 2005 » |
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"It is also observable, that the Romans after having been thus made the executioners of divine vengeance on the Jewish nation, never prospered as they had done before; but the Lord evidently fought against them, and all the nations which composed their overgrown empire; till at last it was subverted, and their fairest cities and provinces were ravaged by barbarous invaders." Thomas Scott
"In all history there is no drama of more terrible interest than that which terminated with the total destruction of Jerusalem." G. A. Henty
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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marius
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« Reply #27 on: 28 October 2005 » |
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"In all history there is no drama of more terrible interest than that which terminated with the total destruction of Jerusalem." G. A. Henty
Nu e alta drama mai mare ? Dar ce zici de drama evreilor stransi din toata Europa in WWII si dusi la crematorii sau la camerele de gazare ? Milioane de evrei ucisi ca animalele la abator. Vezi numai ce vrei tu sa vezi ? |
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sixPack
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« Reply #28 on: 28 October 2005 » |
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Te grabesti ca de obicei. Era un citat din FOR THE TEMPLE: A Tale of the Fall of Jerusalem de G. A. Henty.
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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spaceJAM
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« Reply #29 on: 28 October 2005 » |
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Apai atunci Six.. nu mai tot scoate din context una si alta.. ca e normal sa se ajunga aici :)
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sixPack
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« Reply #30 on: 28 October 2005 » |
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CHRISTIAN HISTORY ASSUMED FULFILLMENT OF THE OLIVET DISCOURSE IN THE FALL OF JERUSALEM UNTIL THE RISE OF NEWER POSTPONEMENT-BASED FUTURIST METHODS (HISTORICISM AND DISPENSATIONALISM)  Christian History & "The Preterist Assumption""'Tis evident that when Christ speaks of his coming; his being revealed; his coming in his Kingdom; or his KingdomĂąâŹâąs coming; He has respect to his appearing in those great works of his Power Justice and Grace, which should be in the Destruction of Jerusalem and other extraordinary Providences which should attend it." Jonathan Edwards(1703-1758)
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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sixPack
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« Reply #31 on: 28 October 2005 » |
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Idem: "The destruction of Jerusalem was more terrible than anything that the world has ever witnessed, either before or since. Even Titus seemed to see in his cruel work the hand of an avenging God" C. H. Spurgeon
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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sixPack
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« Reply #32 on: 29 October 2005 » |
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First, let me say that, as Steve explained above, the New Covenant was the completion of the Old. The Temple, the old covenant, the priesthood, the sacrificial system, etc. were all fulfilled in Christ, and then at his parousia (AD70), he destroyed the old covenant, which was the ministry of DEATH. Therefore, as 1 Cor 15 says, "the last enemy to be destroyed is death." That was the good news of the Kingdom, that Jesus was going to put an end, once and for all, to death, i.e., separation from God. God was going to dwell with humanity, as he did with Adam in the Garden. But no longer was the death experienced by Adam through partaking of the Tree of Knowledge no longer existed.
Secondly, the body that you have is not a problem. The problem is that you, like so many others, have interpreted "the body" in scripture as the physical vehicle that is a part of your living soul. In reality, "the body" was the body of Christ, immortalized. However, the "body of death" was the "body of Moses" described in Jude. It was the people of the Old covenant. It was those who were "under the law" and "in the flesh." You see, "flesh" (sarx) is not our physical body, for the greek word for skin is "dermes", from which we get "dermatology." You see, flesh is that which was subject to The Law, while spirit was what was subject to Love. After the firstfruit believers in the period from AD30 to AD70 were born again through baptism, they were no longer subject to the Law. They were no longer enslaved to "the flesh." They were "in the spirit." And this served a purpose.
You see, God was going to judge Israel "after the flesh", i.e., those unbelievers who were still trusting in their own righteousness, eating from the Tree of Knowledge like their father Adam. They were "in Adam", but the believers were "in Christ." They ate from the Tree of Life.
At the Parousia, the "lake of fire", which was the Roman army (cf. Joel 2) consumed old Jerusalem, and its covenant - which the scriptures call Hagar/Ishmael, Esau, Sodom, Egypt, Babylon. "Satan" which means "the adversary/enemy" was thrown into the "lake of fire" destroyed by the Roman army in the seige of Jerusalem. You see, our entire theology of "satan" was made up by Catholic theologians. We look at scripture through those eyes. We misunderstand the statements by Jesus when he calls Peter "satan". Fundamentalists say that Peter was "possessed by the devil," and that was why Jesus said what he said. NAY. Jesus called him his enemy because Peter wanted to disrupt the plan of God - so Peter was God's enemy, a satan.
You see, the enemy of the first century believers was the Old covenant unbelievers. The pharisees, perhaps, were "satan", religious zealots who were "devils", i.e., accusers. They used the Law to condemn people, because that was what it did. That's what its purpose was, why God gave it - to condemn. But the Pharisees actually thought they were keeping the Law. They accused "the brethren" because they were NOT obeying the Law - they were exercising faith in the Son of God, and trusting in His salvation from the judgment that was to come in AD70 - this judgment being the result, the purpose of the Law.
But the good news was that, after death was destroyed, there would no longer be death to condemn humanity. Only religion condemns humanity. That is what we see all around us, destroying humanity with its rules, and obstacles to God. God dwells with us today. That which condemns has been destroyed. No longer can anyone be "in Adam" because Jesus Christ conquered His enemy, Death. The gates of Hades could not prevail against the onslaught of the spirit of Love and Grace. God, through Christ, conquered all his enemies, and reconciled the world to Himself.
Now, as far as demons go, perhaps there are still evil spirits, due to the fact that there is still religious people who are trying to construct obstacles to God. I am not sure. But I am sure that, a lot of what has been blamed on demonic possession, or "satan" doing something has just been harmful decisions made by humanity. As long as humanity embraces religion, which sets up the obstacles, people will still suffer from its effects. However, in God's eyes, you are free from it. The only person someone hurts by being religious is themselves (and perhaps their spouse and children due to their influence on them). The good news is that God doesn't hate us. Never has. He did it all to reconcile us to Himself.
In His Infinite Grace,
Ed Stevens. |
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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augustin717
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« Reply #33 on: 29 October 2005 » |
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At the Parousia, the "lake of fire", which was the Roman army (cf. Joel 2) consumed old Jerusalem, and its covenant - which the scriptures call Hagar/Ishmael, Esau, Sodom, Egypt, Babylon. "Satan" which means "the adversary/enemy" was thrown into the "lake of fire"
Iehovistii si ei cred ca Parusia a avut loc deja, in 1914 imi pare.
De ce zice Apostolul la II Tesaloniceni 2 1-3 "sa nu va amageasca cineva cum ca ziua Domnului a si sosit", numai pentru ca respectiva epistola a fost scrisa inainte de anul 70? Dar semnele foarte evidente pe care le enumera acolo s-au intamplat?
Dar Apocalipsa a fost scrisa dupa 90.
Baiu cu interpretarea preterista, in varianta extrema de aici ii ca reprezinta o noutate absoluta, fara nici o legatura cu modul in care primii crestini au
in teles a doua venire a lui Hristos.
Si toata discutia-i sterila atata timp cat nu se tine seama de acest lucru.
But I am sure that, a lot of what has been blamed on demonic possession, or "satan" doing something has just been harmful decisions made by humanity. As long as humanity embraces religion, which sets up the obstacles, people will still suffer from its effects. However, in God's eyes, you are free from it. The only person someone hurts by being religious is themselves
Interpretarea pe care o da demonilor este iarasi o noutate absoluta, in relatie cu intelegerea bisericii primare.
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sixPack
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« Reply #34 on: 29 October 2005 » |
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Interpretarea pe care o da demonilor este iarasi o noutate absoluta, in relatie cu intelegerea bisericii primare. Inseamna ca nu l-ai citit deloc pe Augustin. Dar mai sunt si altii. In rest ma abtin de la orice comentariu. Este normal sa reactionezi dur cand e vorba de ceva cu totul nou, sa zic asa, insa nu e sanatos. Am trecut si eu prin multe faze de o vreme incoace. Pentru fiecare dintre noi este bine sa cercetam toate lucrurile si sa luam ce este bun. Daca vrei sa o faci, gasesti aici parteneri de duel: http://www.preteristarchive.com si http://www.preterism-eschatology.com/. Gasesti toate interpretarile pe care vrei sa le studiezi: istoricista, preterista, viitorista si dispensationalista, in toate semi-variantele.  PS: O intrebare: Daca Apocalipsa a fost scrisa dupa anul 70, cum de templul si altarul apar intregi si nedaramate in capitolul 11 din aceasi carte? |
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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augustin717
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« Reply #35 on: 29 October 2005 » |
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Inseamna ca nu l-ai citit deloc pe Augustin
Am mai citit eu., nu foarte extensiv, da tot am citit ceva. Stiiu ca Augustin se opune interpretarii milenariste a Scripturii, destul de comuna in primele veacuri-Sf. Iustin Martirul, Sf. Irineu, Victorinus etc si propune ceea ce se numeste interpretarea amilenista, cu care sunt total de acord. Vezi "De civitate Dei, XII.
Insa Augustin, impreuna cu toti Parintii, desi credeau ca, o data cu Intruparea lui Hristos, moartea si invierea lui, diavolul a fost legat, totusi inca atribuie multe din necazurile prezente diavolului si demonilor intelesi intr-un mod cat se poate de literal si mai mult, inca asteptau pe Hristos sa vina a doua oara,; nu credeau ca a si venit o data cu daramarea Ierusalimului.
Daca Apocalipsa a fost scrisa dupa anul 70, cum de templul si altarul apar intregi si nedaramate in capitolul 11 din aceasi carte?
E indoielnic daca Apoc.11, 1-2 se refera la templul din Ierusalim, la fel de bine poate fi un simbol si in nici un caz nu e un argument conclusiv ca Apocalipsa ar fi fost scrisa inainte de AD 70.
Daca Hristos a venit in anul 70, atunci cum se mai pot explica afirmatii mult mai clare ale Scripturii despre evenimente care preced sau insotesc a doua venire a lui Hristos:
-ca orice ochi il va vedea "si cei ce l-au impuns".
-ca se va arata in cer "semnul Fiului Omului"care, in talcuirea patristica e semnul Crucii.
-ca neamurile vor plange vazandu-l'
-ca vor alerga la munti etc.
-ca inainte se va arata Antihristul.
-ca mortii vor invia
-ca toti vor sta inaintea Dreptului Judecator
-ca" moartea nu va mai fi, nici plangere, nici strigat" etc.
Sunt de acord insa ca Imparatia lui Dumnezeu este deja, intr-un anume fel, prezenta pe pamant, insa nu in mod desavarsit si universal. Aceasta nu se va intampla decat la Parusie.
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"...nu cu ochii trupului vazandu-te, ci cu dorul inimii crezand..."
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Anonymous
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« Reply #36 on: 29 October 2005 » |
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18) Why is there not a shred of proof that modern jews are descendants of Abraham or the tribes of Israel? pardon? hai ca asta chiar e gogonata... |
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sixPack
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« Reply #37 on: 29 October 2005 » |
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Sunt de acord insa ca Imparatia lui Dumnezeu este deja, intr-un anume fel, prezenta pe pamant, insa nu in mod desavarsit si universal. Aceasta nu se va intampla decat la Parusie. Imparatia lui Dumnezeu nu are mai multe etape, Augustin. Acuma, Isus ori si-a asezat Imparatia, ori nu. Daca vrei sa discutam mai multe, trimite-mi un PM. |
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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sixPack
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« Reply #38 on: 30 October 2005 » |
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ĂąâŹâ If A=B=C then A=C ĂąâŹâ
The Olivet discourse cannot be divided, as futurists do, to insert some far distant future 3rd or more Comings of Christ. Luke's account confirms the unity of the Olivet discourse. Lk 21:20-22 was the time when the Son of Man was revealed. This of course should already be abundantly clear because these were "ĂąâŹÂŠthe Days of Vengeance that all things which are written may be fulfilled." [Lk 21:22].
Compare this:
[A] Lk 21:20-21 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. [mid 66-70AD]
To This:
B. Mt 24:16-18 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. [parallels Lk 21:20-21]
With This:
[C] Lk 17:30-31 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. [parallels Mt 24:16-18]
Conclusion:
If ĂąâŹâ [A] Lk 21:20-21 = B. Mt 24:16-18
And ĂąâŹâ B. Mt 24:16-18 = [C] Lk 17:30-31
Then ĂąâŹâ [A] Lk 21:20-21 = [C] Lk 17:30-31
The rules of logic demand that if A=B and if B=C, then 'A' must = 'C.' This beyond doubt proves that Lk 21:20-22 was the "The Day in which the Son of Man was revealed" i.e., His 2nd Coming, precisely as Luke 17:30-31 indicates. The time when the Judean Christians fled city and countryside, departing from roofs and fields, not stopping nor turning back, was indeed the Day when the Son of Man was revealed. We have this unequivocal fact according to Lk 17:30-31, which parallels Mt 24:16-18, which again parallels Lk 21:20-21. With Scripture interpreting Scripture, we find the mid 66-70AD time frame to be the time when the 'Son of Man' was revealed in judgment against Old Covenant apostate Judaism i.e., the Law, Sin and Death.
2Tim 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
Christ's appearing or manifestation ĂąâŹâ being "revealed," is an event concurrent with the "judgment" of the living and the dead i.e., "resurrection" and His "kingdom" and are all Biblically coupled to Christ's end-time Parousia.
David G. Embury Why is there not a shred of proof that modern jews are descendants of Abraham or the tribes of Israel?
------ pardon? hai ca asta chiar e gogonata... S, iti propun sa citesti acest material: Is There a Jewish 'Race' Today? |
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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UnCetatean
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« Reply #39 on: 31 October 2005 » |
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Marius... simpatic dar lasa asemenea demonstratii pentru penticostalii de la tara... Si ca sa ma explic... ceea ce lipseste in argumentatie nu este asociativitatea ci ipoteza ca a e cum spun ei ca e a si ca b e b si ca c e c.... La modul foarte serios, tot mai multi diletanti apeleaza la chestiuni matematice dar ceea ce lor le scapa sunt tocmai definirea ipotezelor si a preconditilor... si de aici totul devine o varza (una "murata" bineinteles)....  |
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Sevenpack
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« Reply #40 on: 05 November 2005 » |
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Arata-mi verset unde zice ca se va arata fizic si te cred. Din contra, le-a zis ucenicilor:
Marcu 13:21- DacĂÂŁ vĂÂŁ va zice cineva atunci: ,IatĂÂŁ, Hristosul este aici' sau: ,IatĂÂŁ-L, acolo', sĂÂŁ nu-l credeĂŸi.
Sa nu-l credeti caci il veti vedea cu totii: 27. CĂÂŁci precum fulgerul iese de la rĂÂŁsĂÂŁrit ĂÂși se aratĂÂŁ pĂÂąnĂÂŁ la apus, aĂÂșa va fi ĂÂși venirea Fiului Omului. :!: Dupa cum vad eu problema, aici este vorba de "venirea" Fiului, nu de "El" in sine ... "venirea" Lui va fi ca un fulger; adica se va derula foarte rapid ... asa vad eu cel putin ... poate gresesc ... dar totusi cuvintele trebuie sa-si pastreze sensul nu sa ne foloseasca noua drept motivatii pentru propriile noastre convingeri ... |
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Sa fi simplu e asa de complicat ...
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spaceJAM
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« Reply #41 on: 16 November 2005 » |
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The Dangers of PreterismEvery teaching has consequences for the spiritual life, and therefore, the teachings of preterism must be considered for their practical dangers. Preterism teaches that Christ has already returned (spiritually), and in its extreme form that He will never return again bodily. However, the divine
declaration in Acts 1:11 that “this same Jesus will come in just the way you have watched Him go into heaven” contradicts this tenet of both partial and full preterism. The verdict, then, is that this teaching is false teaching, and as such not only distorts the prophetic program and denies the blessed hope (Titus 2:13) but promotes the deception that there will be no end to history and (with full preterism) that evil has been eradicated from the world and believers are living in the eternal state. Such false doctrine also prevents Christians from obeying the manifold commands of Scripture directed to those who are waiting for Christ’s coming (1 Thessalonians 1:10). Such practical admonitions given in light of Christ’s return as “awaken … behave properly” (Romans 13:11-13; 1 Thessalonians 5:4-10), “live sensibly, righteously, and godly” (Titus 2:12), and “purify yourselves” (1 John 3:3), have no meaning to those who believe His coming is past not future. Preterism also corrupts the understanding of the present work of Satan and his demons by teaching Satan was crushed and bound at the cross and apostasy is a thing of
the past. Yet, the Scripture states that “our struggle is … against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 6:12), that
“the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19), and that “in the later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1).
How, then, can Christians obey the commands such as those to “resist the devil” (James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:9) or to “avoid such men as these [apostates]” (2 Timothy 3:5). Moreover, this approach to prophecy affects the way Christians understand God’s purpose for the Jewish People and their political views toward the existence of the modern Jewish State. Preterism replaces Israel with the Church, teaching that “ethnic Israel was excommunicated for its apostasy and will never again be God’s Kingdom.”13 If Israel’s future salvation and restoration (Romans 11:25-27) in God’s program is abrogated, then so is God’s promised blessing for the world (Romans 11:12) in fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 12:3).
Dr. Randall Price is President of World of the Bible Ministries, Inc., an organization dedicated to exploring and explaining the past, present, and prophetic world of the Bible.
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augustin717
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« Reply #42 on: 16 November 2005 » |
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Preterism also corrupts the understanding of the present work of Satan and his demons by teaching Satan was crushed and bound at the cross
Acest lucru in invata Apostolii insisi, nu doar interpretarea preterista, doar dispensationalistii -cred- il neaga:" Pentru aceea zice: "Suindu-Se la ĂÂźnĂÂŁlĂŸime, a robit robime ĂÂși a dat daruri oamenilor". " (Efeseni 4, 8).
" ĂÂȘtergĂÂąnd zapisul ce era asupra noastrĂÂŁ, care ne era potrivnic cu rĂÂąnduielile lui, ĂÂși l-a luat din mijloc, pironindu-l pe cruce.
15. DezbrĂÂŁcĂÂąnd (de putere) ĂÂźncepĂÂŁtoriile ĂÂși stĂÂŁpĂÂąniile, le-a dat de ocarĂÂŁ ĂÂźn vĂÂŁzul tuturor, biruind asupra lor prin cruce. " (Coloseni 2, 14-15).
" Deci, de vreme ce pruncii s-au fĂÂŁcut pĂÂŁrtaĂÂși sĂÂąngelui ĂÂși trupului, ĂÂźn acelaĂÂși fel ĂÂși El S-a ĂÂźmpĂÂŁrtĂÂŁĂÂșit de acestea, ca sĂÂŁ surpe prin moartea Sa pe cel ce are stĂÂŁpĂÂąnirea morĂŸii, adicĂÂŁ pe diavolul,
15. ĂÂȘi sĂÂŁ izbĂÂŁveascĂÂŁ pe acei pe care frica morĂŸii ĂÂźi ĂŸinea ĂÂźn robie toatĂÂŁ viaĂŸa. "(Evrei 2,14-15).
" Iar acum s-a dat pe faĂŸĂÂŁ prin arĂÂŁtarea MĂÂąntuitorului nostru Iisus Hristos, Cel ce a nimicit moartea ĂÂși a adus la luminĂÂŁ viaĂŸa ĂÂși nemurirea, prin Evanghelie. " (II Timotei 1, 10).
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UnCetatean
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« Reply #43 on: 16 November 2005 » |
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Alin, precum am spus, nici eu nu imbratisez pretersimul, dar trebuie sa recunosc caci totusi are cateva "puncte"... Articolul citat de tine este unul subiectiv. Defapt atat de subiectiv ca din prima propozitie iti dai seama de acesta. O fi fost scris de un penti super-traditionalist care vede pericole si unde nu sunt... (l-as invita pe la noi in tara prin locurile de "bashtina" sa vada "adevaratele pericole"... :oops: ) Augustin... zau... n-am inteles nimic din expunerea ta! E atat de "complexa" (ironizez evient) si fara fir caci implicit n-are relevanta! :oops: Daca o argumentatie n-are un fir logic evident din start se autodiscrediteaza!!! |
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sixPack
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« Reply #44 on: 16 November 2005 » |
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Expunerea antipreterism postata de Alin este tipica pentru cineva care nu a studiat catusi de putin aceasta interpretare. Este evident ca daca toata viata ai stiut ca nu se poate sa mergi la drum fara roata de rezerva, si vin eu si iti spun ca poti sa mergi fara roata de rezerva, chiar daca vei face pana, nu vei crede o iota. Dar dupa ce iti arat si explic instalatia, vei fi linistit sa pornesti la drum. Normal ca daca ii spui unuia ca ceva ce el asteapta a se intampla, s-a intamplat, nu crede. Lucrurile se schimba insa cand apare explicatia si intelegerea. Sa raspund pentru inceput la una bucata idee:
However, the divine declaration in Acts 1:11 that “this same Jesus will come in just the way you have watched Him go into heaven” contradicts this tenet of both partial and full preterism.
Intradevar Fapte 1:11 spune: "BĂÂŁrbaĂŸi Galileeni, de ce staĂŸi ĂÂși vĂÂŁ uitaĂŸi spre cer? Acest Isus, care S-a ĂÂźnĂÂŁlĂŸat la cer din mijlocul vostru, va veni ĂÂźn acelaĂÂși fel cum L-aĂŸi vĂÂŁzut mergĂÂąnd la cer."
Bine, parerea mea e ca ingerul s-a referit la faptul ca El s-a inaltat ascuns de nor. Si tot asa va veni sau a venit, pentru ca Dumnezeu intotdeauna s-a descoperit numai si numai in nor.Nu cred ca revenirea lui Isus "la fel" se refera la alte elemente, pentru ca atunci Apocalipsa l-ar contrazice pe ingerul din Fapte. Asta pentru ca Apocalipsa il arata pe Isus venind in alt fel decat cel din Fapte:Apocalipsa 19:11-14- Apoi am vĂÂŁzut cerul deschis, ĂÂși iatĂÂŁ cĂÂŁ s-a arĂÂŁtat un cal alb! Cel ce sta pe el, se cheamĂÂŁ "Cel credincios" ĂÂși "Cel adevĂÂŁrat", ĂÂși El judecĂÂŁ ĂÂși Se luptĂÂŁ cu dreptate. Ochii Lui erau ca para focului; capul ĂÂźl avea ĂÂźncununat cu multe cununi ĂÂźmpĂÂŁrĂÂŁteĂÂști, ĂÂși purta un nume scris, pe care nimeni nu-l ĂÂștie, decĂÂąt numai El singur. Era ĂÂźmbrĂÂŁcat cu o hainĂÂŁ muiatĂÂŁ ĂÂźn sĂÂąnge. Numele Lui este: "CuvĂÂąntul lui Dumnezeu." OĂÂștile din cer ĂĆœl urmau cĂÂŁlĂÂŁri pe cai albi, ĂÂźmbrĂÂŁcate cu in subĂŸire, alb ĂÂși curat. Apar deci calul, ostile si altele.PS: probabil cand o sa am timp o sa mai raspund. PS': sunt convins ca unii resping din start o idee sau alta. am facut-o si eu si ii inteleg. nu este insa o masura inteleapta. macar un "dar daca este adevarat" este de ajuns. pentru ca "cercetati toate lucrurile si luati ce este bun" se poate aplica cu succes. pe cuvant.
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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Liviu SJ
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« Reply #45 on: 16 November 2005 » |
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Rev 19:13 Era ĂÂźmbrĂÂŁcat cu o hainĂÂŁ muiatĂÂŁ ĂÂźn sĂÂźnge.
Rev 19:15 Din gura Lui ieĂÂșea o sabie ascuĂŸitĂÂŁ, ca sĂÂŁ loveascĂÂŁ Neamurile cu ea, pe cari le va cĂÂźrmui cu un toiag de fer. ĂÂȘi va cĂÂŁlca cu picioarele teascul vinului mĂÂźniei aprinse a atotputernicului Dumnezeu. Daca se asteapta careva sa-l vada pe Domnul cu hainele manjite de sangele Golgotei, sau cu o sabie iesindu-i din gura... "s-ar putea" sa aiba surprize... |
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augustin717
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Pogorarea Sf. Duh
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« Reply #46 on: 16 November 2005 » |
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Iar acum s-a dat pe faĂŸĂÂŁ prin arĂÂŁtarea MĂÂąntuitorului nostru Iisus Hristos, Cel ce a nimicit moartea ĂÂși a adus la luminĂÂŁ viaĂŸa ĂÂși nemurirea, prin Evanghelie.
Ce-i asa greu de-nteles?
Ca Hristos, prin moartea si invierea sa a biruit stapanirea mortii si pe diavolul.
Nici nu am intentionat, nici nu stapanesc subiectul atat de bine, incat sa ma apuc de combatut punct cu punct fie preterismul, fie dispensationalismul, insa cred ca am adus niste versete biblice pertinente si care combat afirmatia respectivului domn, cum ca diavolul n-ar fi fost biruit si legat la Cruce.
Pana acum, nu doar replicile pe care mi le-ai dat mie, ci tuturor-vorbesc de epoca mai recenta, nu stiu cum ai procedat la inceput-nu aduci contraargumente punctuale, ci faci afirmatii generale, ca unu-i "complex", ca altu-i "subiectiv", ca unu nu-i bun la logica etc. Si ti-au mai spus si altii acest lucru. Bine-ar fi de-ai lua aminte, altfel risti sa te asemeni unui sofist care pe toate le stie, dar de argumentat nu poate (prefer sa cred ca nu vrei, co-opinenti neridicandu-se la nivelul tau, probabil).
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"...nu cu ochii trupului vazandu-te, ci cu dorul inimii crezand..."
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sixPack
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« Reply #47 on: 16 November 2005 » |
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Ai dreptate augustin. Pavel spune ca ultimul vrasmas care va fi nimicit va fi moartea. Ori ea a fost nimicita, o spune tot el. Nu o sa intru in detalii, dar pentru cei ce sunt in Hristos, Satan si moartea nu mai exista. Ei au deja viata vesnica.
Iar atunci cand ni se spune: impotriviti-va lui Satan si el va fugi de la voi, este vorba de firea pamanteasca, de madularele noastre de pe pamant.
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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sixPack
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« Reply #48 on: 19 November 2005 » |
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Pentru cei care vor sa cerceteze preterismul:The Nature of Christ's Return
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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sixPack
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« Reply #49 on: 19 November 2005 » |
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Liviule, cand ai timp, citeste studiul asta. Bun sau rau, m-am gandit ca te intereseaza: The Law is Fulfilled
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Proverbele 13:12- O nădejde amânată îmbolnăvește inima, dar o dorință împlinită este un pom de viață.
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